Dalit Indecisiveness on Social Justice- I

One of the manifold problems of dalits is “integration”- individual and communal. But the real problem is the inability to integrate our agitation to struggles for social justice or self-determination elsewhere.(dalit movement have been indifferent to various other people’s movements, claiming ideological differences). Although deliberate attempts have been made to seek alliance through identifying common enemy, emerge as arbiter of “reservation”, “careat a political base” without much success. The quintessential dalit movement of social justice is pigeonholed into “floundering discrimination” and “reclaiming dignity of dalit identity”.

So when Indian parliament unanimously passes a bill to implement 27% reservation of OBC (other backward classes-as defined by the Mandal commission) and the islands of excellence swing into action apparently to preserve the “academic excellence”, dalits face a catch-22 situation. While supporting reservation is a hobson’s choice for dalits, extending it to who have been recently mounting atrocities on dalits seems unpalatable. Around a year later, it remains a bone of contention in dalit forums.

Origin of the debate

my question is to all members of this community that why should we support reservation for o.b.c. are they part of us……..is their need of reservation is more than us……is their socio-economic condition is same like us???????????? do they not suppress us for eg. in UP, bihar, rajasthan……….so by supporting fortheir reservation how can we achieve benefit………..as far as my knowledge is concerned i have never seen in them respect for us and baba saheb……………..jai bhim.. plzz give ur views

Views pour in. Some deadly against it and only two in favour. The major grievances of the opposers were that OBCs dont “oblige” Babasahed and they inflict atrocities upon dalits. Other less important were, they dont participate in pro-reservation rally, their politicians dont care for dalits and they unite with the caste-hindus than dalits. In favour were the views that “OBCs are our brothers as Caste-hindus treated them lowly”, “Babasahed told so”, “If we cant have them, manuwadis will have them (examplifying Ayodya issue)” and “even Jyotiba Phule was OBC”. To the questions of OBC politicians patronising Dalits, there was an informative post.

Not all among them are bad people…Mulayam is crap…but do u know when Mandal Commmissions (Inamdar v/s Union of India) case was going in Supreme Court…no lawyer was willing to fight the case in favour us…all of them were Manuwadis…finally Lalu offered any Lawyer who would fight the case for us Rs 2 Lakh for each day…but still he could’nt get any of them……Finally Ram Jethmalani agreed…but only if he was paid Rs 2Lakh per day…………Result-we lost the case…..reason—-Jethmalani is Criminal Lawyer…his arguments were insufficient at that time in front of the Hon.Judge,,,, he dint have that type of prevoius experience.

What I found astounding that, nobody in the forum shared the reason I took to street last year. Those did support were still dreaming a foundering unnatural alliance. My post was 19th, and I wrote what I thought was the reason de atre for supporting OBC reservation.

Reservations for OBC should be supported because “this” category have been grossly underrepresented in various spheres (of employment and education). Period

a little explanation..

this is in spirit of the POONA PACT and progressive ethos the CONSTITUTION of India uphelds.

Regarding other issues (like OBC being the instrument of attrocities, or the Landloard or huge political success, or richness) effective majors should be employed to curb their hegemony. It should be none of our concerns if they follow Babasaheb or evolve their own icon

I was glad that the qurious being who intitiated this thread did respond. In a way, I was asked to related with the previous questions lingering unaddressed.

My argument helps us this way..

  1. If we support OBC reservation, we value the principle of equal representation of which reservation is an offshoot.
  2. It removes the misgiving that reservation is a process to “uplift” the depresed class people. Reservation alone cannot uplift people.
  3. Reservation is not a mean to end “dicrimination”. So if OBCs treat us the same way caste-hindus do and help discrimination perpetuate THE STATE MUST ENSURE THIS ENDS, by some means. Not by denying them their share in the democracy.
  4. I am not supporting OBC. I may be a bete-noire of them, I am supporting a democratic concept which will ensure equal treatment to all its citizen by a method of positive dicrimination.

And I forgot to add
Taking a fig from your arguments..some dalit sub-caste dicriminate other dalit subcaste. It is so intense that they dont eat together or inter-marry. Should the discriminating dalit be stripped off his benefit of reservation? Some dalits dont attend any pro-reservation meetin..should they be left out ??

Neither state nor law does act that way. We need to understand that although the disparity in social and economic status is a result of caste-system, the state machinery strive to create equal opportunity and ensure equal-participation from all caste-groups. So the underrepresented are positively discrimated against the overcrowded ones.

This does not mean that OBC should be allowed to sit on heavy chunk of land, or continue to attack or suppress dalits. State must also ensure land reforms simultaneously and stop atrocities and disrimination but thats another issue

Then the thread derailed for a few post with actually is the reason of the length of this article. So this girl said, how she dreamed that history is forgotten and people could live together happily everafter, cause she was sick of DISCRIMINATION IS EVERYWHERE. Sometimes a childlike optimism keeps you alive.

Everyone wishes history was fairer.

If u think forgetting the past and mingling with the caste-hindus while they (either pretentiously or genuinely)do not practice untouchability, is going to help you and your society, you are free to practice your theory. I, for that matter, encourage individual liberty.

It followed up with this post

@ @ ar & apocryphal

Hi sorry to interrupt but I could not stand a blind leading a blind. Actually you both seem to be living in fantasy world as history would never be disregarded (learn from it!) nor would be there any absolute individual liberty(treacherous). In realism strive for equality, fraternity and liberty as imbibed in our Constitution by our beloved leader Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar and only if these traits are honored together they stand for peace.

In my opinion reservation is a step towards it and its here to stay!

I cannot help bustling into a big laughter when I read this post and the consequent growth of the thread.

Few pointers to Rahul (OT)

  1. Hurling personal accusation limits the scope of discussion.
  2. Read and understand the posts before you reply, if you dont, there is no scope of discussion. And we would be arguing over a misunderstanding (which I prefer not to) rather than trying to understand something. (If u need need help understanding something in what I wrote, let me know).
  3. There is NOTHING in this world absolute.
  4. Nothing I said was against the values enshrined in our constitution.
  5. You are very welcome to put your opinion.

The debate takes a whole new turn in the next few posts……(contd.)

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